Posted by: DIS | December 5, 2012

It is Written

It is written

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Responses

  1. Thank you brother Charles, this is in accordance with much of what I have studied, Clement of Alexandria > followed by Origin were the beginnings of the faulty Alexandrian Greek text in the 2nd century, and has been the foundation of the new age bible versions in the last 120 years…Jerome and Augustine brought their tainted works from Alexandria (te Vaticanis and Sanaicanis) into the RCC in 400 AD,, also it was where the false Septuagint or LXX old testament was fostered as well,,Jerome used their work to write Jerome’s Latin Vulgate in 400 AD.., not to be confused with the original Latin Vulgate copied in the 2nd century from the good Greek majority text, which was held by the Waldensians ever since the 2nd century.

    garce and truth be with you

    bill

  2. I did not write this , it came as a response to universal salvation at Pete Wilsons site, i thought it was informative and could be considered. It seems too have a lot of information concerning universal salvations origin and its early beginings, God bless
    Roots of Universal reconciliation

    1. Hello Everyone,
    I want to say that I love and respect everybody here; although, I don’t agree with the message of universal salvation that is being taught here. I’m keeping an open mind though, and I’m trying to understand the viewpoints and scriptures being discussed by those of you in support of universal salvation. My head has been spinning over the whole issue the past few days – God help me. I’ve been examining the scriptures posted here in favor of universal salvation, but at this point the Lord is not revealing to me that universal salvation is the truth. However, I’ll keep searching it out. With that said, I want everybody to consider some things. Firstly, I’ve detected a very occultic flavor to universal salvation. If we study its historic roots, we can find that it is interwoven with occultism and esotericism. I’m not saying that the historical record should ultimately validate or nullify a particular doctrine, as we should strive to get our understanding from the scripture alone, but sometimes the historical record can gives us some hints and clues that may be useful in discerning things. Of course, I can’t speak for anybody here, but some historical items concerning universal salvation send off alarms and red flags in my heart. I say that because I’ve studied the occult for many years, and I know intimately the bad fruit that the followers of the occult bear. Jesus said we would know them by their fruits. The people who adhere to occult doctrines have been responsible for so much war and human suffering on this planet. The men who adhere to the teachings of the ancient occult mystery schools (pagan sun worship, gnosticism, kabbalah, Freemasonry, Roscicrucianism, Jesuitsim, etc.), are the worshippers of Lucifer according to their own writings. That is frightening to me. In my understanding of things, these men of the ancient mystery schools have injected pagan doctrines into Christianity as a means to subvert it. Universal Salvation appears to be one of these subversions. Please take a moment to consider the historical record that demonstrates the connections between the occult and universal salvation.
    The concept of universal reconciliation (apokatastasis), predating the early church fathers’ conception of it, can be traced to the pagan Babylonian astronomy:
    “The first truly conceptual use of this term is to be found in the writings of the early Stoic thinkers, particularly Chrysippus, who had a special attachment to Babylonian astronomy, with its theory of cosmic cycles and eternal recurrence… The Stoic idea was based upon an astronomical doctrine according to which the return (apokatastasis) of the planets to their proper “celestial signs” initiates the conflagration (ekpurôsis), which is the reduction of the entire cosmos to its primal element (fire), after which follows the rebirth of all existing things. This destruction and rebirth is connected effectively with the divine logos that guides the cosmos and preserves it in stability (katastasis).” (Edward Moore, Quodlibet Journal: Volume 5 Number 1, January 2003)
    This concept of apokatastasis ( what would eventually develop into Christian universal reconciliation) that originated in Babylonian astronomy, was eventually absorbed by the gnostics where they developed a Christianized version of it:
    “the Gnostics simply took Stoicism, astral piety, and sundry other aspects of Hellenistic syncretism, and brought them to a logical – or perhaps illogical – conclusion… It must also be noted that Gnosticism produced the first great Christian theologians – Basilides, Valentinus, and Ptolemy – who were actively teaching and philosophizing at a time when orthodoxy was still in its infancy.” (Edward Moore, Quodlibet Journal: Volume 5 Number 1, January 2003)
    Concerning Gnosticism’s influence on Christianity:
    “Gnosticism emerged in schools of thought within the church in the early second century and soon established itself as a way of understanding Christianity in all of the church’s principal centers … Gnosticism was thus a major threat to the early church,” (Holman Bible Dictionary, p. 558.)
    “Its (Gnosticism’s) rapid growth in the ancient world was encouraged by an early Christian fascination with Greek philosophy and mythology … early Christians were led into Gnosticism when they rejected the Old Testament and turned to Platonic Dualism,” (Mercer Dictionary of the Bible, p. 334.)
    Interestingly, Clement of Alexandria, would embrace the Babylonian/Stoic/Platonic ideas of apokatastasis that had been absorbed and transformed by the Gnostics:
    “Clement of Alexandria, was a Christian theologian who taught at the Catechetical School of Alexandria. A convert to Christianity, he was an educated man who was familiar with classical Greek philosophy and literature. As his three major works demonstrate, Clement was influenced by Hellenistic philosophy to a greater extent than any other Christian thinker of his time, and in particular by Plato and the Stoics. His secret works, which exist only in fragments, attest that he was also familiar with pre-Christian Jewish esotericism and Gnosticism.” (wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Alexandria)
    Clement of Alexandria was the teacher of Origen. Many modern day Christians who adhere to the doctrine universal salvation trace the early teaching of universal salvation to Origen (of course, I know you guys trace it to the men who wrote the Bible:)-
    “The first clearly universalist writings, however, date from the Greek church fathers, most notably Clement of Alexandria, his student Origen, and Gregory of Nyssa. Of these, the teachings of Origen, who believed that even the devil might eventually be saved, were the most influential. Numerous supporters of final salvation were to be found in the postapostolic church, although it was strongly opposed by Augustine of Hippo. Origen’s theology was at length declared heretical at the fifth ecumenical council in 553.” (D B Eller, Elwell Evangelical Dictionary)
    Hosea Ballou (1771-1852) is considered to be the “father of American Universalism”. Ballou wrote in his book that Origen was the creator of the doctrine of Universal Salvation:
    “It was about the year 230 that he (Origen) published, at Alexandria, his books Of Principles, in which he advocated, at considerable length, the doctrine of Universal Salvation…Origen introduced the doctrine of Universalism.” (Hosea Ballou, The Ancient History of Universalism, pp. 85-86)
    Interestingly, the man considered the “father of the American Universalism”, Hosea Ballou, was an avid, high ranking Freemason. If you haven’t studied Freemasonry, I can assure you that the God of Freemasonry is Lucifer. I’ve studied the writings of Freemasons for years and they acknowledge in their writings that Lucifer is God. However, understand that to them Lucifer is just a metaphor for the human intellect or god of reason. They don’t believe in a supernatural being called Lucifer and they don’t believe in God – they are humanists. This is not to say that everybody who is a Freemason is worshipping Lucifer, but at the highest levels of the society that is what is happening. There is a strong connection between the early Universalist Church in America and Freemasonry:
    “Hosea Ballou was self-educated, and devoted himself early on to the ministry. In 1789 he converted to Universalism, and in 1794 became a pastor of a congregation in Dana, Massachusetts. Ballou was also a high-ranking freemason, and he attained the position of Junior Grand Warden of the Grand Lodge of New Hampshire in 1811… Ballou has been called the “father of American Universalism” (wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosea_Ballou)
    “Ballou had always stressed the cultivation of Universalism’s central theological doctrine, and he had no definite vision of Christian social activity or involvement. Significantly, the one nonchurch activity to which he consistently devoted himself was Freemasonry… Post-Revolution Masonry had initially stressed the generally secular, virtue building aspects of its ideals, but it soon moved from a nonsectarian avowal of “universal love” and toleration toward an explicit identification with Christianity…Freemasonry understandably proved immensely appealing to Universalists, who seem, along with Unitarians, to have been proportionally over-represented among religious groups within the order of Freemasonry… Those Universalists who joined the order evidently regarded Freemasonry as completely congruent with their religious faith, indeed, as a logical extension and reinforcement of it… Hosea Ballou, who in 1811 was elected junior grand warden of the Grand Lodge of New Hampshire, also extolled the “brotherly love” of the order. In an 1808 address in Windsor, Vermont, Ballou declared that, in Masonry, “men of different nations, of different colors, of different languages, of different religions and of different politics enter on the same level.” There “the Roman Catholic, the churchmen, with the whole band of the various dissenters, meet the Jew and the Mahometan in the inviolable bonds of unaffected friendship.” (Ann Lee Bressler, The Universalist Movement in America: 1770-1880, pp. 77-79)
    This cozy relationship between Universalism and Freemasonry is interesting, because if you study the history of Freemasonry you will find that Freemasonry is built upon Babylonian astrology, Gnosticism, and the Kabbalah. The Kabbalah (which is just the continuation of the ancient pagan mystery of Babylon) is at the root of the occult today:
    Freemason Albert Pike wrote:
    “The Gnostics derived their leading doctrines and ideas from Plato and Philo, the Zend-avesta and the Kabbalah, and the Sacred books of India and Egypt.” (Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 248)
    Freemason, Manly P. Hall, wrote:
    “The theories of Kabbalism are inextricably interwoven with the tenets of alchemy, Hermeticism, Rosicrucianism, and Freemasonry. The words Kabbalism and Hermeticism are now considered as synonymous terms covering all the arcana and esotericism of antiquity” (Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages, p. 114)
    Interestingly, the Kabbalah teaches universal salvation:
    “it is high time that the Kabbalah, with its optimistic philosophy of perfectionism and universal salvation, be recognized, for the impetus it gave to ideas that have become so fundamental in the modern world” (Fredrick Greenspahn, Jewish Mysticism and Kabbalah, p. 170)
    “The effect of the Kabbalah on Christian religious thought was also significant. Christians who accepted the Kabbalistic notion of universal salvation rejected the concept of an eternal hell” (Wilbur Applebaum, Encyclopedia of the Scientific Revolution, p. 533)
    “The Kabbalah was imparted to Moses by God. The Kabbalah emphasizes universal salvation.” (Leonard Sweet, The Seraph Seal, p. 434)
    “In the sixteenth century a new form of Kabbalah was produced by the students of Isaac Luria. While this built on earlier Kabbalistic thought, there was an emphasis on the doctrines of reincarnation and universal salvation” (Allison Coudert, Religion, Magic, and Science in Early Modern Europe and America, p. 227)
    “Elements of the ancient gnostic belief in the perfectibility of man and in universal salvation survive in the both the Kabbalah and in Quakerism.” (Richard Kroll, Philosophy, Science, and Religion in England: 1640-1700, pp. 34-35)
    Essentially, what I believe is that Christian Universalism is just a branch of occultism. It is occultism with Christian clothing, and it has been pumped into Christianity to serve occult purposes. Specifically, the doctrine of universal salvation is being leveraged by the occult as a stepping stone to get traditional Christians to accept and embrace other faiths with open arms. It’s part of a larger ecumenical strategy that is being foisted upon the world in an effort to unite all of the world’s people into a utopian political system via common religious ground. At this juncture, I believe those supporting universal salvation have been tricked; although, I will continue to examine the scriptures that you guys are referencing. I’m trying hard to hear your argument. Please consider in earnest what I’ve written. Again, I love and respect everybody
    1. Hi Emily,
    The Greek word you used in Mat 25:44 is indeed ‘aionios’ but the meaning of that word is not ‘age lasting’ rather ‘everlasting, eternal, for ever’. The same word is used to describe eternal life and eternal God (Rom. 16:26). There is another Greek word ‘aion’ which properly means ‘an age’ but that is not to be confused with ‘aionios’ which is ‘everlasting’. The same word used for ‘everlasting punishment’ is used for ‘everlasting life’, and ‘everlasting God’. If you dismiss eternal punishment, then we would have to dismiss the concept of everlasting life or an eternal God. In Christ’s love, Kateryna

  3. Pete you teach “It is written, MAN, you, me, Bill, all men, will live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. That is what is written Bob. It has all already been declared. ” But that’s not what the scripture teaches. The Word of God says “Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.” You see the difference Pete? You add ‘all’ to the Word of God thereby perverting the meaning and inviting condemnation upon yourself. Those men who live, live by every word of God. Those who don’t are destroyed, as in the following; “Exo 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Deu 4:3 Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you. 2Ch 15:6 And nation was destroyed of nation, and city of city: for God did vex them with all adversity.. Pro 13:13 Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded. Pro 29:1 He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy. You see? You add one little word ‘all’ to the bible and now you got everybody being saved. That’s not the truth, it’s a lie. Sure as the Lord lives, there are those who “shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.” Without remedy means no purgatory lake of fire, no second chance. This lake of fire refinement thing is nothing more than a unoriginal, late night, back alley Catholic burglary. Repent Pete, I pray it’s not too late. “Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed” Peace to the Jew’s , mark

  4. John3:36
    “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

    Romans 5:9
    Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    Ephesians 5:6
    Let no man deceive you with vain words, for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

    Col 3:6

    1 Th 1:10
    And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

    1Th 5:9
    For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Col 1:18
    And he is the head of the body, the church who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    Preeminence: G4409 Proteuo: to be first, hold the first place.

    Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.

    Matt: 4:17
    From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

  5. Yes bro Mark, the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience..

  6. 1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

  7. Anyone who thinks the wrath of God is a good thing, is sorely deceived. “2Ch 12:12 And when he humbled himself, the wrath of the LORD turned from him, that he would not destroy him altogether: and also in Judah things went well.” mark

  8. Thank you Bob and Bill for your continued time and studies. A brother mentioned today that a full-frontal assault is well underway by the Adversary–every agency, all departments, each message and broadcast is designed now with the overriding agenda to stamp out Christianity and bully or seduce the committed away from their spiritual purposes. I know you feel it and see it. Keep your shields up.
    Linda

  9. Thank you brother Bob for the word of truth,

    sadly, Jesus Chrst and HIM Crucified, while dieng to the lusts of this world, is a very unpopular message for those who walk in the flesh…How do we know if we love HIM? We keep HIS commandments, sayeth the apostle John, other wise the love of God is not in us.. Let God be true and everyman a lier..

    Pete, all men that go to hell send themselves there, for God is just and righteous…Teaching a false gospel like the one you preach is Gods greatest ememy and receives the greatest damnation, only a man without the fear of God in him would would do so, think about it, and repent, if its not already too late, may God have mercy on your soul..For those who have CHOSEN of their own free will the path of Hebrews 10-26-31, and Hebrews 6:4,5,6, its already too late..Repent and believe, Jesus is LORD the ALMIGHTY GOD of all creation. God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek HIM through a godly repentance…

    grace and truth
    bill

  10. Bob, Do you not understand that salvation comes WITH JUDGMENT. Nobody escapes judgment and wrath, in fact is starts at those God has chosen, His very house. You have now been shown the truth on this matter and yet you continue to persist in this rebellion and hatred of the true doctrines of Christ.

    Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

    1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

    Do you understand what this verse says. NO MAN enters until…..

    Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

    All of us were children of wrath. We must drink of the cup that Christ drank. We must endure the wrath and judgment of God before we will ever know He is the Lord. You fail to see God’s purposes in judgment and how it could be said they are sweeter than honey and more desirable than God.

    do you not know that grace is what teaches us, chastens us? All that are chosen by God will be scourged and endure great wrath. So when you come to a Heb 10:26 and use that to support your idol of heart that you were smart enough to save yourself by choosing Christ, then God simply answers you according to the multitudes of your idols.

    Eze 14:3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?
    Eze 14:4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;

    Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

    It is written, MAN, you, me, Bill, all men, will live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. That is what is written Bob. It has all already been declared.

    Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.


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